Recession-Proof - a podcast by Ramp

Alex Song:
Welcome to FinOps Today, the podcast from Ramp where we discuss why financial operations is such a rapidly growing discipline, how it has helped some of the most exciting businesses today and why it's enabling the future of strategic finance. I'm your host Alex Song, head of finance and capital markets at Ramp. Today, I will be talking to Jonah Remz, head of finance at Capchase. We'll be discussing how he joined the team, how he has built the finance team around him and financial operations today. Hey Jonah, thanks for joining and welcome.

Jonah Remz:
Thank you, very happy to be here.

Alex Song:
So, I wonder if we can start by a quick intro on who Capchase is? What your company does? And then maybe we can go a little bit more into your background and the finance team.

Jonah Remz:
Sure. First off, very happy to be here. So, thank you for having me. Capchase is a financing and solutions provider to high growth technology enabled recurring revenue businesses. Essentially, what we aim to do at Capchase is we look to provide founders and other operators of high growth companies with the ability to focus on operating their business by providing them flexible financing solutions against the underlying revenue of their businesses. So, typically we work with SaaS or other recurring based businesses where they have a really strong performance and they're able to go and acquire new customers, but they might not be valued in the same way in the traditional capital markets, because that takes time for them to actually recognize the revenue of those underlying customer relationships. So, we come in and we're actually able to advance them funds against that underlying revenue so that they can then reinvest that into the business and really grow their overall pool, maybe potentially not take on that equity financing they were looking to do and save dilution or whatever it may be that really is the primary goal of their business.

Alex Song:
It sounds like it probably is a topic near and dear to yourself? Given that you are also at a fast growing relatively young business and so the folks that you are company serves probably a lot of them look and feel like Capchase itself?

Jonah Remz:
Yeah, absolutely. Where I sit today is the head of finance at Capchase, I'm always thinking about the business where are we today? Where are we headed? How are we capitalized? What decisions do we have to make to get to where we want to be? And what we look to do at Capchase is offer something with speed that traditionally is a prolonged, sometimes really painful process for these young companies. And as you guys I'm sure are well aware what really is quite important to companies at this early stage is speed and time to execute. And so what we look to do is offer tech enabled solutions, so underwriting via data connections versus traditional bank due diligence methods, so you can really give back the time to companies so that they can focus on planning rather than having to hit the brakes and worry about raising the funds over a prolonged period of time. So, definitely something that we relate to as well from a business that's growing quite fast and always wants to make sure that we're aligning resources and time effectively.

Alex Song:
That's awesome. Financial technology and how we enable savings in terms of time and efficiency is definitely something that resonates with us. Before we delve into that though, maybe lets to talk a little bit about your background. What did you do before Capchase? What led you to your current role? How that's going?

Jonah Remz:
Sure. So, originally I started my career in investment banking at Houlihan Lokey, just traditional finance background, really enjoyed seeing a lot of different companies at pivotal points of their life journeys when they're naturally either being acquired, raising money, et cetera. And then after a period of time got the itch to go see what it was like to actually work in one of those businesses. And that started my career in the startup space. And since that time it's been this progression towards earlier and earlier stage. So, that first role was at a call it 500 to person shop focused on digital advertising, super interesting to me to see just the way non-finance people work. It seems like a simple thing to say but when you work in investment banking, that's really what you're surrounded by.

Jonah Remz:
And it was a company that had been around for a little bit, had some well established processes, but was that pretty exciting periods of looking to realign some things and try some new pretty impactful products and working on those was something I really enjoyed. Then after that I moved into the FinTech space at a company called Bread by now pay later company that was acquired last year or actually now in 2020 by ADS, where it moved a little bit earlier and I really enjoyed that where you start to be able to put your hand print on it a little bit of how you can make those decisions of structuring, what does the finance organization look like? What are some of these decisions to make? Still, definitely a bit more of a... It had a foundation already, it was a series C company, but really exciting period of growth and as we all know that BNPL space just really caught on fire over the last few years.

Jonah Remz:
So, super exciting to work in that space. And I was there up until the acquisition, which was a whole another wild experience in it of itself. And then that led me to where I am today at Capchase, where I head up finance where I went even earlier and earlier joining the company when it was 15 folks and the thought process there and what I really enjoyed and still enjoy every single day is, it gives you that chance from that truly ground level to take the learnings of the different experiences of the past, see what's worked, see what hasn't. Try to put that into place in a new environment where you really have all this green space to do what you believe is the best for scaling the business. And then most importantly, adapting along the way because you never know what exactly comes around each corner, how the growth plan pivots, et cetera and just reacting and continuing to build along the way has been something that's been incredibly exciting and rewarding.

Alex Song:
That sounds incredible. Definitely something that resonates with me as well being the first finance hire here at Ramp. I'd love to pick on that topic a little bit more. I'm sure a lot of our listeners are just very curious. Maybe we can focus this discussion on two things. One, scaling the finance organization. What does that actually mean? Who were some of your key hires? And when did you make these hires? And how did the team come together? And then after that, I'd love to actually explore a little bit about your day to day. I assume as the 15th employee, your day to day probably looked very different than what it does today now that you guys are significantly larger. So, would love to hear from you about both building the team and your day to day functions.

Jonah Remz:
Sure. On that first point of building the team and structure. So, when I came on really early stage, you're correct it's a bit of doing everything and then it's also there's still some of the areas that maybe aren't my typical background. So, accounting making sure that those get done and learning very quickly of what does that take to bring that to the next level? And who do I need to surround myself with? So, very quickly we worked with an outsourced accounting firm that was super helpful in terms of making sure that we were closing the books and we were allowing for that growth in a responsible manner, but very quickly what I saw is that we're going to continue expanding the team, we're going to continue expanding just the size and scope of the overall organization and the sophistication's going to be dialed up quite significantly.

Jonah Remz:
So, only a few months in actually we decided to make the move from QuickBooks to NetSuite. We ran a process of looking at what are the accounting systems that we potentially want to use and naturally alongside that we want somebody that can be a true owner, not just of the system but all things accounting. So, right away within a first few months wanted to make that conscious decision to bring somebody online that can understand the business from that ground level. We start to put in place policies, procedures, reporting requirements, et cetera, that really allow us to not just operate efficiently as a 15 or 50 person organization grow to many multiples of that. So, very quickly brought on somebody to head up accounting, start to learn from across every aspect of the organization, how are we running today? Where do we need to improve? Et cetera and then to start to then build under there.

Jonah Remz:
So, we have that accounting function and Sally who heads up that has brought on some additional resources since that time and we're also really focused on making sure there's call it internationalization of it as well because we have a lot of offices in different areas. So, that FinOps and accounting is one area. The other that we very quickly identified of making sure that we upscale our abilities is in the FP&A space. So, we think it's really important to have somebody that can truly provide that feedback and analysis to the business, having a pulse on taking the data, getting it in front of the right people and what I always like to say, shining a spotlight on issues and opportunities, which I think is really integral at a growing stage of the business but we're making decisions in such a expedited manner that you really want to make sure that you can make data driven decisions and you're getting that to the right people at the right time.

Jonah Remz:
The third leg of how I think about scaling the team is on the strategic finance side. And the way that we've approached this is strategic finance is a little bit embedded in all of that. And so it has aspects of accounting and FinOps, it has aspects of FP&A, and then it ties it all together from the company perspective, what are some of the step functions if you will, that will change how the company looks? And how do we understand and communicate to the different areas of business to make sure that we're all aligned with the overall company goals that we're communicating to the external markets?

Jonah Remz:
And so we're also scaling the team up there in the coming months springing on a new hire. So, that's a bit about the background where it started as just me in the employee 15 or so, and adding on those specialty focus areas across the org. Now, in terms of what I do day to day, the short answer is every day is quite different and exciting in a startup like Capchase. I think the more opportunities grow, the more that daily amount changes but I do really like to split it between focusing on those three different areas that I identified of the FinOps, the strategic finance and the FP&A. And so an example of that is putting in place and reviewing the policies in FinOps whether that's the monthly close processes, whether that's expense and other employee policies related to onboarding ongoing management, et cetera.

Jonah Remz:
And then on the FP&A side, always looking to work with on the data side, how can we make sure that we're ingesting data in the right way, putting together reports that are useful for the team, having meetings with the respective departments to look at their trends, identify how can we rethink our forecasts, et cetera, and having that constant line of communication open which I think is key. So, always having meeting within the business and different business level owners there. And then on the strategic finance sometimes this might be ad hoc and sometimes it feels you can have longer stretches of focusing on one area such as for example, anytime we're in an equity raise process that can really dominate quite a bit of time in terms of making sure getting materials together, positioning the business appropriately, responding to investor questions, et cetera. And so spending quite a bit of time there too. So, it's no one day is the same and I definitely would not trade that for anything.

Alex Song:
That's a great overview. Just curious actually, maybe you can give us some context on how large is your team today and how does that compare to the overall size of the organization?

Jonah Remz:
Sure. So, today we're actually fairly lean. I know I split it up into a few different pillars, which might make us sound we're quite large, but it's myself, we have two on the accounting side with a third to come shortly and we have one on the FP&A team and then we have another coming on the strategic finance side. So, all in we have six folks including myself.

Alex Song:
And I'm just curious, is there a mental heuristic that you have or maybe you don't, but right now six divided by a 106%. Over the course of time, do you see that number potentially going up, going down and is there some normalized head count that you're targeting?

Jonah Remz:
Yeah, look, I definitely see that going up in terms of what we're targeting, the way that I think about it is I think the team certainly has to get bigger and I think it is in some ways the finance can be proactive and reactive. And I think in the part of terms of how big the team can get is a little bit more of the latter on the react. What I mean by that is given the complexity of the business, both from on the operation side and what our go to market of approach is, as well as the composition of the rest of our organization, I think that can also really dictate what you need from finance. So, as an example, we are in the business of financing and money movement and there's a lot of requirements around that will need to continue adding to our light and up scaling our team around being able to handle some of that.

Jonah Remz:
So, if you think about treasury and those kind of roles. Then another aspect in terms of if we think about just from the organization is we are quite international and that creates a lot of complexities around different international payroll systems and taxes and all of that. So, I think the more that continues to expand and you have that complexity of the underlying org, so too will the team grow because I've seen businesses with quite lean teams run very efficiently but because you have a more standardized product that is located in a single geography or whatnot, versus as businesses identify and roll out new and have continually expanding organizations, I think that can really make the need for the finance team to grow a bit. So, a little bit of a punt on that answer there, but I would say that we are a bit on the as the business goes, I think we continue to grow the team accordingly.

Alex Song:
No, I think that makes a ton of sense. I think if I were to distill down your answer into maybe two main points, one is the international aspect of it obviously adds a ton of complexity. And the other aspect is you are a financial service's company, right? Much like Ramp, we move around a lot of money and so associated with that, just a lot of responsibilities, a lot of infrastructure as well as controls and compliance and all of that clearly it adds some amount of work. Given the time that you've spent at Capchase, what's been a project or something that you worked on that was really tuff, really hard and what's been a couple of main challenges that you've tackled as you've grown the business and skilled your team and function?

Jonah Remz:
I think one of the first bigger challenges was we talk about international and we also talk about being in the financing space and what comes with that. And I think just from a FinOps perspective, if you think about it from subsidiaries and getting decently complex in terms of your actuals financials and you are reporting requirements and right away starting from a small team with that, and then rolling out a new accounting system and being able to very quickly deliver on time reporting that's as accurate as possible when you have a lot of these international components, I think that was something that certainly was a tough experience, but it was really good that I think we've learned to tackle that from that early stage, because then as we continue to expand internationally, it's an area that now that we've effectively identified efficient processes to execute on, I think it's something that has made us be able to have more confidence going forward that we're able to deliver in a timely manner.

Alex Song:
Jonah, I'm going to have a few rapid fire questions for you...

Jonah Remz:
Please.

Alex Song:
... On the topics that we just covered. Number one, NetSuite transition, you talked a little bit about that. How long did that take? What was your reflection?

Jonah Remz:
So, NetSuite took about I want to say about two to three months and look I think sometimes NetSuite integrations and transitions might be a little bit more challenging because you have a lot of preexisting ways of running accounting through legacy systems and sometimes they're well run in processes, sometimes you hack things together. We made the conscious decision very early on in the business. We only started in late 2020, and we moved to NetSuite by mid 2021 because we saw on the horizon that need for the complexity as mentioning around these different subsidiaries and whatnot and figured that it was going to be a little bit easier to integrate the right way when there was a little bit less complexity in the business, even if that means spending a bit more money obviously on a system like NetSuite versus QuickBooks.

Jonah Remz:
And so therefore, I would say that the integration maybe wasn't as painful as initially expected. I talked to a lot of folks before we did it because it's a meaningful decision and it takes up team time and effort at a time when as we were discussing before, is one of the most important time being one of the most important things for a young growing company but was pleasantly surprised because I think kudos to the NetSuite team leading us through the integration and then also Sally who runs our accounting at Capchase, really making sure to drive that to having a successful outcome.

Alex Song:
Interesting something that Ramp is looking forward to this year. My team is already gearing up for making that transition later this year, topic number two, who does your taxes?

Jonah Remz:
So, we are actually switching to our new auditor this year who will also do our taxes. We're going with BDO and previously we in 2020 we had our outsourced accountant. They did our taxes.

Alex Song:
And then topic number three, would love to hear about expense policy. We hear at Ramp are all about financial controls. What's out of policy? What's in policy? We try to do a good job of making that efficient and smooth for our customers who drafts your expense policy? What's been that process like? Who owns that? And how's that going?

Jonah Remz:
So, and by the way, I'll give you guys a little bit of shout out. You make managing our expense policy a hell of a lot easier. And so it's been... I hadn't heard of Ramp when I joined Capchase and then when I immediately started adding on employees left and right and approving expenses, putting policies in place definitely made our lives a bit easier. So, thank you for that. But in terms of how the policy creation goes about. So, we have from the finance and accounting side we lead alongside legal and anytime we adapt new policies running by the founding team as well or approval before we communicate to the broader organization, the approach that I take in the words that we live by is any time that you're doing something for the first time, jot it down, it should be a policy.

Jonah Remz:
And so from day one, obviously you start with zero policies in that we're a few people, young, scrappy getting it done and everything is done through email, slack approval, and everybody has visibility into everything, but as we grow those policies become more and more important. And so we've lived by that ethos of if somebody's doing something in a way that there's not a precedent, then should we be making a precedent, do we put a policy in place? And then we gather that group that I mentioned to then make sure that we're doing the right policy based off of our business goals and then communicating accordingly.

Alex Song:
That's a pretty good segue way into maybe more of the financial technology and FinOps aspect of the conversation, which is first of all, we're all very happy here at Ramp that you're part of our ecosystem, any other tools or technologies that you really like that you think is adding a lot of value? And also the other side of that equation is what are you still missing? What's still out there that you think could be automated? What busy work that you think you could get rid of? Maybe let's tackle both sides of that coin.

Jonah Remz:
Sure. On the first side in terms of tools. A few tools that have been really helpful for us as a business in finance specifically. First one I'll call out is notion. So, as a company that is always growing, always adding on new joiners and when we absolutely look to put in place best processes around onboarding, but then also you recognize that everybody that's joining, maybe they don't have the full download on some of the latest initiatives of the business. And notion has been a really great tool where folks can go by different departments by different project initiatives and document in a really comprehensive manner everything that's going on in those respective business lines and it's a good way for collaboration as well.

Jonah Remz:
And I think it's something that's allowed us to keep a culture of transparency and efficiency. Another one that I would say is really making sure that we invested in business intelligence kind of day one. So, actually you asked originally about the structure of the finance team until very recently, I also had under me BI but since as we've keep growing and naturally that being a really key cross-functional role, we've moved that into the opt-group of the business. But I think a BI tool is something that's really vital to every organization. So, we've started off with a tool called Metabase, which is open source and we were able to really move quite quickly in getting usable data for everybody real time at our fingertips, which has been absolutely integral as we think about always making decisions with the latest and greatest information.

Jonah Remz:
And we're currently in the process of transitioning that over to Looker, which I've had experience in prior jobs using and have also found that just incredibly useful so that folks across different functions can really make sure that they're getting the data that they need when they need it real time. In terms of what we're still doing today from the busy work angle. I think one area where it's always a bit challenging and I haven't found the perfect tool yet is on sales compensation. So, I think naturally the tools that I've seen out there that have worked really well are for when you have a very call it established and consistent approach, versus when you're a younger company you're constantly evolving. And the way that you're not just from the headcount and always ramping new people but even just rethinking the plans as you launch new products, go to new markets, et cetera it becomes a bit challenging sometimes to use those tools.

Jonah Remz:
It's almost like if you think about it from financial planning, people often say, "I can't get out of Excel. I can't use one of those planning softwares because my business is always changing." Its similar way there. Some of the other busy work I would say is just always making sure that data across different business groups is all speaking to one another. So, that's where I think Looker does a great job and why we're transitioning over to that, but when you're looking at a lot of the different points of a client life cycle from before they sign up to all the different points of interaction after sign up and once they're on the platform and there's data can be pulled in many different ways and making sure that there's a clear way to map all that together sometimes requires busy work that can certainly be automated in the future.

Alex Song:
That's awesome. I'm mostly chuckling because so many of the things that you just mentioned really resonate with me. Number one, we are actually literally onboarding with Looker right now as our own business intelligence software. And then number two, with respect to sales compensation, if you only knew how many times we've had to draft to redraft and revise our own sales compensation policies here at Ramp. So, definitely some of those things really deeply resonate with me.

Jonah Remz:
I think you and probably so many other early stage companies we have the same pain points there for sure.

Alex Song:
Definitely. With respect to the pain of financial controls and with respect to documenting as you grow, are there things that you are looking forward to in 2022? Major initiatives, major projects, things that you are trying to build and are excited about that you're able with us?

Jonah Remz:
Sure. One thing that I'm really excited about just from continued goal of organizational buy-in is running our first formal budget process. And like I said, we've only been around since late 2020 and a lot of the folks have been added through call it throughout the year of 2021. And so it's a nice natural launching point for the beginning of our fiscal year in March to just stop, align on what are the goals, what are the major drivers of the business? What are the roadblocks? And then understanding from all the different departments in a detailed way, what do they need to deliver? Where are their biggest concerns? What do they feel really bullish about? And having the budget as that forcing mechanism for those conversations and then those future checkpoints, I think is something that I really look forward to.

Jonah Remz:
Sometimes I feel in prior experiences, budgets can feel like something that might be restrictive and it's a finance exercise of approving or rejecting expenses and whatnot but for a company like Capchase, which is in this really exciting period of growth, I look at it more as how can we really align on goals and how can we empower the actual business units to not think about all right, if finance to approve expenses or whatnot but how can I make sure that we're forward thinking about what we need and then we can move quicker when the time comes? So, I'd say that's one big area. Another one that we mentioned is having the audit.

Jonah Remz:
I think we went through this selection process and what I'm excited for is you asked about the different policies earlier and I think that we have a really great structure in place but I believe that we found a good partner that had really indicated the willingness to work with us, not just as a reviewer and approver of our financial controls and whatnot but really as a partner to say, here's a better way to enact X, Y, or Z. And here's how you can think about the business so that you can really allow for that scale of world growth and not have to rewrite the book later on. So, I'd say that's certainly an area that's on the horizon for 2022 that I'm definitely excited about.

Jonah Remz:
And then another area I think is just a continued international expansion. I think every territory brings exciting opportunities with a lot of great, interesting companies that we can provide our solutions to. And I think that's something that we always look to do and it obviously comes with certain complexities about regulatory environments for each country around reporting around staffing of those up. And what does payroll look like and all that. And I think 2022 for Capchase will have quite expansion of just our offerings across the world.

Alex Song:
Not to open up a whole can of worms. And certainly this conversation is not per se about fundraising or anything along those lines. But I think one of the things that we're always curious about is once a company has raised a certain amount of capital, whether it's at equity or debt and obviously Capchase in 2021 was fairly successful in raising both of formats of capital. What do you do with it? And how do you manage it? How do you think about liquidity? How do you think about making that part of the overall discussion with respect to FinOps?

Jonah Remz:
Yeah. Look liquid is core at everything I think about every single day across the different company goals that we have in the end, liquidity is our lifeblood. We are in the financing space. We need to make sure that we have the capital required to be able to provide the solutions that we do provide today in the market. And so anytime before we go for a fundraising, it's really around what are our needs for the next X period of time and depending on a current environment, that could be 12 months, that could be 24 months and then really thinking about here's what could work well in our favor, here's what could go wrong and how can I make sure that I'm always capitalized with buffer? And the way that I always think about it is, so you don't want to raise when you don't need it but when you do, you want to get as much as possible.

Jonah Remz:
And so the way that we think about it is always having an adequate buffer to make sure that depending on what happens, you're always really able to... I don't want to say weather a storm because it's not necessarily bad, but in our world, it can often be a good problem because our business has really accelerated and we've invested more and more. So, we're always tracking on a very frequent basis where our outlook is in terms of liquidity. What has changed? And from everything that we have in the pipeline about what new products we might launch or expansion to certain product lines what could that impact be? And then starting to make sure that we flagged the right people. When do we start to have those conversations to get ahead of it? Because there's always a drag between that beginning of that conversation until when you get it and making sure to start those accordingly, I think is something that we're always focused on.

Alex Song:
Got it. If you got, let's say an extra couple hours every day or an extra couple of days back every month, where would you personally invest that time? Is there an area on the finance team or an area within the firm that you personally would love to do more in?

Jonah Remz:
Yeah, I think some area is just always around documentation and not just in policies, but more in terms of internal processes. So, I think as a startup and moving quickly, there's always an emphasis on getting things done and making sure that we're moving quickly and never slowing the exciting growth of the business. But also we need to make sure that if you have a key employee that's out for vacation or sick or leaves, whatever might happen, that you don't have a hiccup or a lag in the business. So, I think it's continued time around documentation, just making sure that we always have no bottleneck or no source of risk there, I think is something that's very important. Another, I would say and this also goes in the aspect of us moving with speed is just an unbiased revamping of all models.

Jonah Remz:
And we've developed so many different financial models for specific areas of the business, overall corporate models, et cetera. And naturally sometimes when you're moving quickly, you have bias to continue building off of what you've already done just to get it done. I think if you had more time where you could block off a few days every month to just start from scratch, rebuild, find better ideas and truly try to whiteboard something rather than continue building on top of. I think any team would really benefit from an exercise like that and that's certainly something that I would look to do with if you gave me a few days back each month.

Alex Song:
What do you think is the right cadence to let's say, revise or remodel whether it's your budget or the operating model or your financial model?

Jonah Remz:
The way that we think about it is from a call it regular update and pacing and tracking. We do that pretty regularly at least monthly, if not often more frequent. When I say more frequent, it doesn't necessarily mean that you have the new historicals obviously but in more so just in terms of the forward looking at those new approaches in certain areas, but generally on the monthly cadence, it is more of the updating, the trending, et cetera.

Jonah Remz:
And then how we think about it and how I'd like to plan is on a quarterly basis, having that more in depth conversations, budget review with the departments to make sure not just from the expense side but in terms of delivering against certain goals and initiatives. How are we stacking up against that? Where do we need to rethink? Are there total areas that we haven't even considered that we want to then build into the model, et cetera?

Alex Song:
Switching gears a little bit. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you this about this topic, which is very near or dear to me, I would love to hear a little bit about the capital markets function actually at Capchase, obviously understanding that you have a fairly sophisticated balance sheet, you have a fairly significant amount of lender capital as well. I would love to hear a little bit more about the cross functional work and how you guys manage the maybe the distinction between finance versus capital markets, FinOps versus loan operations et cetera?

Jonah Remz:
Sure. So, look given as you mentioned in terms of some of the different levels of sophistication of our capital stack and just the fact that with how fast we're growing, there's always this constant state of investor conversations and negotiations. We made the conscious decision early on to have capital markets and finance structured as two separate groups. So, with that being said, we work incredibly closely as the finance team with capital markets, as it's as you can imagine, it's really vital to everything we do from a go to market strategy, understanding from a capital planning, what are we able to fund? How can we make sure that as we think about liquidity down the pipeline, where we can rely on those sources coming from? And going back to day one when we first came in, we closed our first credit facility just that the turn of the new year and in 2020 to 2021.

Jonah Remz:
And since that time we've had a number of different events in terms of capital markets. And so what we did very early on is we brought on somebody to head up that team where that they live and they breathe capital markets. They focus on that all day around. How do you streamline operations of the cap markets? Whether it's reporting, asset tracking, et cetera, as well as from strategic angle, how can we always make sure that we're exploring alternative financing options in the market, et cetera? Now, from the finance side I spend a lot of time making sure that from the liquidity perspective, we're all set but we really wanted to make sure also, and why we separated the groups that also spend that time in terms of the standard business analysis, the corporate modeling, et cetera and ensure by splitting up those two groups our thesis is that you're enabling that focus and effort to really make sure that you execute on those two separate areas as efficiently as possible.

Alex Song:
Thanks so much for joining the podcast.

Jonah Remz:
Thank you, Alex.